“Drag” regional countries in development, Maldives President tells India

An outspoken Maldives President Mohamed Nasheed urged the regional super power India to “drag” neighboring countries in its development efforts, and otherwise it would give rise to “resentment” in the region, in an exclusive interview with the Asian Tribune.

“With newly found wealth in India with its development, I think it is very important for India to drag other countries in the region in its development efforts,” President Nasheed opined.

“Otherwise it will give rise to resentment and lot of regional issue, if India becomes suddenly rich and others in the region find themselves not eating,” he warned.

A staunch advocate against climate change, trying to save his nation of coral islands from being submerged, President Nasheed staunchly maintained that “adaptation” is the key.

“You know, there is nothing called free lunch. We have to fend for ourselves” when it comes to climate change.

“The bottom line” he said is “finding dry land” and for that matter the country is hoping to create a fund to buy land, in the event they become climate refugees.

Despite the country’s ongoing constitutional crisis, the President sounded optimistic of remedying it, sooner.

And he sees the passage of the amendment to the Public Finance Act in Parliament as no barrier for governance.

“The constitutional allows a fair amount of powers to the President. What the president has not done is using those powers,” Nasheed said hinting he would not hesitate to do so.

Following are the excerpts:

Asian Tribune: What would you cite as successes and failures in your nearly two years of presidency?

President Nasheed: If we go back even 5 years, and if we imagine today from that point of time, it would be easy for us to assess what we have been able to do. There were two main things that we were advocating for. One was anti corruption and human rights abuse. Also Freedom of expression and separation of powers too were among them.

If we ask how our human rights situation, in the last two years, has anyone been tortured, and has there been any ill treatment of people, I would say, of course, there would have been some. I ‘am not saying that nothing has happened.

But I am very confident police by and large has been behaving very well and the Police Integrity Commission has been working out very well. In that regard we can really count our successes.

But the work of building the institutions relating to protection of human rights is still very important. That is the police Integrity Commission and the Human Rights Commission. That work has to go on. We are doing it but we would like to see more work.

The rule of law and separation of powers are also crucial.

One of my failures is that we have not been able to address the past human rights abuse. Therefore, resentment is still there. We need to find ways and means of addressing it.

Also in terms of human rights, there are many other failures. I would have loved to do much more than we have been doing. One is to build up a police institution and a police academy to go along.

Mainly building police procedures as to when and how police should arrest people interrogate people; conduct investigations without infringing upon others is very important. But it would take time.

By and large, after any change of government in this country, the whole of previous government would go to jail. But we have not arrested anyone or sentenced anyone.

The previous administration is intact, and they are going strong.

Asian Tribune : You mentioned about separation of powers, and are you happy with the way it is today, given the fact that the country has hit the worst

President Nasheed:Well, we are not happy with it. Our party, the MDP supported a parliamentary system of governance and we wanted to work out a parliamentary system. The whole constitution is based on a parliamentary system.

But on the eleventh hour, someone came up with a bright idea (in Parliament) and decided to go for a referendum to decide the form of government.

The result came out to be a presidential system, although by that time the constitution was done based on a parliamentary system.

Then, the alien chapter on the presidency came in. How far powers are separated between the executive, parliament and the judiciary, how much leverage should parliament has over the executive are there.

Ideally, in a presidential system, parliament is there to make the executive answerable and not to infringe upon us and stop the executive from working, as is the case today.

According to my understanding, the opposition is working very hard to change the government without waiting for the elections in 2013.

They have been a little eager on toppling the government. They want a quick transfer of powers back to them. In that process they have become a little over enthusiastic. But I think they will come to their senses.

They have to come to terms with the new reality.

Even if I say that, I would say Thasmeen (the main opposition DRP Leader) actually understands the situation. We are here to stay here till the end of our term. There is absolutely no way that they could dislodge us.

When I listen to Thasmeen it’s nice. He may have lot to say on the government but he is not trying to topple the government and trying to make the government answerable.

He understands democracy. But not all of them (in his party) understand this. I think it will take some more time for Thasmeen to get a good grip on his own party – in a sense to wash the DRP off and make it a clean party.

I have suggested the idea of a unity government but at the same time we all believe in the sanctity of political parties too.

Yet I am making an appeal for a national government and I hope the elements within DRP could understand this.

Asian Tribune : Do you think the crisis in the constitution is threatening to undo your progress?

President Nasheed: No. There was a time when we hit a crisis at the end of the transition period (as cited in the constitution to finalise independent institutions etc).
There was a time it could have gone wrong. But the Supreme Court was set up and it is intact now.

We are all sane people. We know the consequences. I don’t want to take the form of government back to dictatorship however much it would be easy for me to run.
We know that the best form for governance is democracy, and it would deliver development. Despite challenges, I don’t think we are on the brink of unraveling the constitution, and going back to where we were earlier.

Asian TribuneThe Attorney General has said that he would find a way out despite the passage of the controversial amendment to the Public Finance Act, subjecting key executive decisions to parliamentary approval. What would be the outcome of his suggestion?

President Nasheed:The constitutional allows a fair amount of powers to the President. What the president has not done is using those powers.

Asian Tribune So, what stop you from using executive powers?

President Nasheed:because of the history and because of the strong presidency and dictatorship. It’s not that I can’t. There is a tendency to be corrupt in power. It is easy to do so. You have vision and you have viewpoint and you want to move there.

But in their (opposition) euphoria, they have come up amendments to the Finance Act. But they themselves know it is not possible to make it without many more other acts related to it.

The Act calls for many more act and all those acts are not there. Therefore individually the Finance Act cannot work.

Although I sent it back to Parliament, the act was passed again with just 39 votes and now I have to ratify it.

However, it does give some time before ratifying, and it does not say when I have to ratify it.
In other instances, the Constitution says when I have to do so. I would like to ratify it but we have to give lot of thought before doing it.

Asian Tribune:The UK House of Lords in its debate on June 29 said that you are becoming “increasingly dictatorial” following a spree of arrest of opposition MPs after your cabinet staged a mass resignation. What is your response?

President Nasheed:We had Yamin (People’s Alliance Leader) arrested and the charges were not clear. It was cloudy at that moment.

Moving from dictatorship to democracy, I would argue there will be instances when one would have to have a better grip on things and make sure that this (governance) doesn’t fall off the rail. So, if I have to do it again, I will do it again. But I will make sure we have our focus, that democracy is the goal.

When we see the whole thing is being derailed through corruption or bribery I will have to flex my muscles, at that time, and I will do it.

So, if the House of Lords or anyone else looks at us at such a moment it might be possible for them to argue that it is not on.

Asian Tribune You mean you wouldn’t mind dictatorship to a certain extent in such instances?

President Nasheed:I do mind dictatorship. I do mind dictatorship a lot. We have to ensure that we do not slip back to dictatorship again, and to ensure that we have to at times stop processes on the track.

The issue with Yamin and Qasim (Republican Party Leader) is that the government found they were heavily involved in bribery. The cases will now go to the prosecutor general and we have to get the law to take its course.

Asian Tribune: Could there be a referendum over the amendments to the Finance Act?

President Nasheed:Asking for a referendum on this matter is going to rock the country. It is going to polarize the country. We had presidential and parliamentary elections and we are going to have local government elections soon.

What the public think is very clear.

In parliamentary elections we won the popular vote. But our party didn’t get majority status. We lost 12 seats with the margin of nine votes. But when we won, we won by those constituencies by bigger margins of 300-400.

I am not at all worried about the media. If the media is hostile, they can be so. I don’t think that is the general reflection of the people. During this Ramadan, I have visited more than 400 homes. I haven’t seen that resentment translated.

I know this country. I have only been off the streets for two years. I am born and bred here. I have visited every island twice.

Out of the 47,000 houses in the country I have visited half of them. I have fought from ward elections to party elections, to presidential to parliamentary to party elections.

Asian Tribune: Are constitutional amendments still likely?

President Nasheed: Yes, if we can sit down and talks. There is a small hitch in the talks between the government and the opposition.

I will ask Thasmeen to start talks again with the government and hopefully by the end of this parliamentary recess (early October) we should be able to come back to talks.

Asian Tribune: Sri Lankan President Mahinda Rajapaksa and also the US Ambassador too mediated peace talks between the government and the Opposition. Did it serve any purpose?

President Nasheed:Sri Lanka and the Maldives are very close. President Rajapaksa is very close to me. He understands that we are going through the early challenges of democracy. His advice to both myself and Thasmeen helped us get on the track. If necessary, I will ask him again to intervene. But I feel it could be worked out.

Asian Tribune: You have been seen as a hero internationally, when it comes to the issue of climate change. You have acted and spoken tough on the matter. But at home, critics say you have failed, with your executive hands tied by an opposition dominant Parliament. What is your response?

President Nasheed: If we look at a country after hundred years of dictatorship moving to democracy, for example the Eastern European countries, we saw what happened then and we saw where they are now.

There was seventy years of single party rule and then suddenly democracy came and we saw how chaotic it was. They slipped back into dictatorship again. All this happened right in front of our eyes in the 80s and 90s.

I am aware of what is happening in my country. I believe we can do this (governance) very intelligently.

I don’t need such a huge, thumping majority in Parliament. That’s really not necessary at all. But people have given me a mandate. I can go again and again and again and they will give me the same mandate.

You know our project is not just the government. Our project is about the country. The opposition is also our project, to build it, maintain and to improve it.

When formed the MDP (ruling party) we did it knowing there will be other parties in its image. Now we have these parties.

So, I am happy that they are coming up with such criticism. I believe in the freedom of assembly and freedom of expression.

I would argue that there is no other country, after such a long time of single party rule, held elections, transferred powers smoothly, set up independent institutions, without going on a witch hunt.

Asian Tribune : You have been advocating against climate change. But at the rate greenhouse gas emissions continue, where do you think the answer lies in protecting your country that is in the danger of being submerged?

President Nasheed: Adaptation is the immediate answer, which is protecting our shores from erosion. Those include, water breakers, embankment which is going to be very expensive. The sea wall around Male’ alone is US$ 300 million.

For instance, we are now raising four islands and building a revetment around them. That is going to cost us somewhere around 40 million Euros. From the beginning we have to understand that we have to fend for ourselves.

I know many countries speak about aid on climate change. No, no, there is nothing called free lunch.

Asian Tribune: Previously, you have spoken of resettling your people in another country. Are you working towards it?

President Nasheed:I have always been telling that the bottom line is dry land. We have to find a mechanism for that. The idea was to create a fund, so that we save for a rainy day, and use that fund to relocate ourselves, in case we become climate refuge, which is probable.

We haven’t decided in which country we would be resettled.

The Maldives has been here for the last 2000 years. We have a written history. We might have to consolidate ourselves from 2000 islands to a fewer islands.

Asian Tribune : There are concerns that India’s Sethusamudram project poses the risk of inundating some parts of Maldives and Sri Lanka. Your comment?

President Nasheed:I have been in contact with one of India’s top scientists and so far there have not been conclusive research to that effect.

I believe it would be in India’s interest not to antagonize anyone in the region

Asian Tribune: Do you think SAARC has failed?

President Nasheed:I think SAARC is important. But it should not continue in the manner we are going ahead. During the last SAARC summit I gave a speech to that effect ( urging India and Pakistan to mend ties and give momentum to SAARC)

With newly found wealth in India with its development, I think it is very important for India to drag other countries in the region along with its development efforts. Otherwise, it will give rise to resentment and lot of regional issues, if India becomes suddenly rich and others in the region find themselves not eating.

The next SAARC summit is going to be held in the Maldives in Addu. We have submitted a project called the “SAARC connectivity programme” – a coastal transport network, linking all 8 member states.

Asian Tribune: Do you see the chances of new members being added to the South Asian grouping?

President Nasheed:The South Asia is distinctly us. There is no way we can extend further. We are distinctly us. I can go to Sri Lanka and look like one of them.

There is this European idea of expanding Maldives until it becomes Europe. But we do not believe in that.

Asian Tribune: How about the chances of forming an Asian Summit?

President Nasheed:President of East Timor had the idea that we should have an Asian Summit before we go to Cancun summit on climate change.

But when grouping gets so huge it doesn’t work. I believe, we have to get those regional groups worked, effectively.

- Asian Tribune -